blakeli微笑着对大家说: Who have read the book of John Vlissides??(20:21)谁曾经读过John Vlissides的书?
lipy对blakeli说: 哪里可以买到?(20:23)
iwxg对blakeli说: How many times have you read this book?(20:24)你读过多少次这本书?
blakeli微笑着对大家说: 好多书店都有啊!(20:24)
blakeli微笑着对大家说: I read it littly(20:24)我几乎没有读过。
iwxg对blakeli说: I'm just reading it,but I can't grasp it well.(20:26)我正在读这本书,但是我对它的内容领会的不深。
blakeli微笑着对大家说: o! Maybe you will get some advise from Mr.John.(20:28)哦,那你正好可以从John先生那里得到一些建议。
umlchina对大家说: GOF's photo at http://www.umlchina.com/Chat/vlissidesinfo.htm(20:29)GOF的图片在下面这个连接中可以找到http://www.umlchina.com/Chat/vlissidesinfo.htm。
babysloth对大家说: Pattern Hatching不错,C++ View上正在连载。(20:29)
umlchina对大家说: Please set your color in BLACK when you talk to each other(20:30)请注意:在你和其他人相互交谈时,请将你的颜色设置为黑色。
umlchina对大家说: In BLUE when asking question(20:31)在你问问题的时候,请将你的颜色设置成蓝色。
huangcy对大家说: hello, whendo
we begin
the talk?(20:40)好的,我们什么时候开始谈话?
johnvlissides进入聊天室.(20:47)
feng98对大家说: Hi(20:47)大家好!
umlchina对大家说: welcome(20:47)欢迎各位来到umlchina。
johnvlissides对大家说: hi!(20:47)大家好!
umlchina对johnvlissides说: welcome(20:47)欢迎您光临umlchina的聊天室。
johnvlissides对大家说: hi everybody!(20:48)大家好!
fcx123对大家说: Hello,Prof. johnvlissides! Nice to meeet you.(20:48)你好,john vlissides教授,很高兴见到你。
babysloth对大家说: Is everything OK now in New York?(20:48)现在纽约一切可好?
umlchina对大家说: 主持人:fcx123(20:48)
johnvlissides对大家说: I wouldn't say everything is okay, but(20:48)我不能说一切都很好,但是
johnvlissides对大家说: things are settlingdo
wn(20:48)一切都已经安静下来了。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: hello,nice to see you.(20:49)你好,很高兴见到你。
lipy对johnvlissides说: hello,Mr. John!(20:49)你好,john先生!
johnvlissides对大家说: I presume I'm broadcasting now(20:49)
fcx123对大家说: Prof. johnvlissides, Please use red color!(20:49)john vlissides教授,请您使用红色!、
johnvlissides对大家说: how's that?(20:50)这样如何?
umlchina对大家说: 提问及参与讨论:草原之蓝(20:50)
babysloth对大家说: I've written to you and Mr Stroustrup, but only got reply from him.(20:50)我曾经写信给您和Stroustrup先生,但是只有他给我写了回信。
umlchina对大家说: 互相说话:绝对黑色(20:50)
fcx123对大家说: ok. Which one ask first?(20:50)好了,哪一个先开始提问?
johnvlissides对babysloth说: that's strange(20:51)很奇怪。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: what's your e-mail address?(20:51)你的email地址是什么?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: babysloth@263.net(20:51)
johnvlissides对babysloth说: i haven't received anything from you(20:51)我没有收到过任何从你那里寄来的邮件。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: try sending to vlis@us.ibm.com(20:52)下次你可以尝试发信到vlis@us.ibm.com。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: Professor John lissides, can you give us what is the important differences between framework and software architecture?(20:52)John vlissides教授,你能告诉我们在框架和软架构之间有什么重要的区别么?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: oh, I'm sorry.(20:52)哦,对不起。
johnvlissides对大家说: first of all, a framework is code(20:53)首先,一个框架是代码。
lipy对johnvlissides说: can you tell me how you start your software designing?(20:53)您可以告诉我您是如何开始您的软件设计的么?
huangcy对johnvlissides说: I often confuse them in some abstract level.(20:53)我经常在一些抽象的层次上对他们感到疑惑,无法区分。
johnvlissides对大家说: it embodies the design of a category of software(20:53)它更强调在软件目录层的设计。
johnvlissides对大家说: like for example, accounting systems or graphical editors(20:53)例如,账户系统和图形编辑器。
johnvlissides对大家说: "software architecture" is an emerging discipline(20:54)关于软件架构的形成原理
huangcy对johnvlissides说: I think the architecture is the begin
of software design, isn't it?(20:54)我认为架构是软件设计的初始,您认为呢?
johnvlissides对大家说: not unlike building architecture, but with many concrete differences(20:54)不,不像构建架构,这两者还是又很多具体的区别存在。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: architecture is most useful for larger projects(20:55)对于越大的项目架构就越重要。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: Can you give me these differences?(20:55)您能给我们讲一下这些区别么?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: design applies to everything that needs to last(20:55)设计会应用到每一个可能使用到最后的东西。
johnvlissides对lipy说: I got started by writing software!(20:55)我总是在写软件的时候开始这一切。
johnvlissides对lipy说: after a while, I learned what worked and what didn't(20:56)后来,我就会学会应该做什么不应该做什么。
johnvlissides对lipy说: I just had the privilege of writingdo
wn and publishing what I'd learned(20:56)我仅仅是有记下来和发表一些我已经学会的知识的能力而已。
babysloth对大家说: Well, I'm interesting in the story about how you joined Gang Of Four(or there would be Gang of Three
). Could you please tell us something?(20:56)太好了,我对您的故事和您是如何加入到Gang Of Four(或者应该是Gang Of Three)的事情很感兴趣。您可以告诉我们相关的事情么?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: most obviously, building architecture deals with buildings(20:56)很明显的,构建构架是在处理构建的事情。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: less obviously, software is much more malleable and changes faster(20:57)不容易发现的是,软件是很容易扩展和改变的。
lipy对johnvlissides说: what is the name of your new book?(20:57)您的新书的名字是什么?
huangcy对johnvlissides说: Yeah,but I think the software is mostly like building.(20:57)是的,但是我认为软件更像盖楼。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: I can send you a draft of an article that talks about how we got together(20:58)我可以送给你这篇文章的一个草案,它会告诉你我们是如何到一起的。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: send me e-mail at vlis@us.ibm.com requesting it(20:58)你可以发信到vlis@us.ibm.com来索取这篇文章。
johnvlissides对lipy说: I personallydo
n't have a new book out(20:58)我个人并没有出版新书。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: in other words,software is more unstable?(20:58)用另一句话说,就是:软件是非常不稳定的,对么?
johnvlissides对lipy说: the last book I authored is Pattern Hatching(20:58)我写的最新的一本书是《Pattern Hatching》.
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Oh, thanks!!!(20:59)哦,非常感谢。
fcx123对johnvlissides说: I think there no relations between "analysis pattern" and "design pattern", right?(20:59)我认为在分析模式和设计模式之间没有任何联系,对么?
huangcy对johnvlissides说: and maybe change some part frequently? but how about other aspects?(20:59)并且,也许是一些部分改变得非常频繁?但是,还有没有其他方面的区别?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: yes. there are lots of physical limitations on how fast you can change a building(20:59)式的。有很多实际情况会限制你尽可能快的修改你的架构。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: software is much easier to change---and break in the process(21:00)软件是非常容易被改变的,并且在开发过程中也是非常容易中断的。
paofan对大家说: Thank you very much. Mr.John. in this special time. U from USA, talking about pattern with us.(21:00)非常感谢。在这个特殊的时间里,John先生从美国和我们交流关于模式的问题。
lipy对johnvlissides说: I just begin
to learn UML in short time?can you give me important advice?(21:00)我刚刚开始学习UML。你能给我一些重要的建议么?
johnvlissides对fcx123说: I think there are lots of relationships between analysis and design patterns(21:00)我认为在分析模式和设计模式之间有非常多的关系。
johnvlissides对fcx123说: they are the same relationships that exist between analysis and design themselves(21:01)他们也有同样的关系存在于分析和设计之间。
simontang_bit对大家说: design and analysis are unified process.(21:01)设计和分析是同样的过程。
johnvlissides对fcx123说: you can't divorce analysis from design. If you try, you'll fail(21:01)你不能将分析从设计中独立出来,如果你打算这么做,那么你一定会失败的。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: and Is design patterns used to shield these changes?(21:01)设计模式是否屏蔽了这些改变?
johnvlissides对paofan说: thank you!(21:02)谢谢你!
jeffray对大家说: where is the john?(21:02)John现在在哪里?
johnvlissides对paofan说: it's an honor to be here(21:02)在这个地方应该特别的注意。
johnvlissides对jeffray说: right here in NY(21:02)现在在纽约。
johnvlissides对lipy说: check out Fowler's UML Distilled(21:03)你可以看一下Fowler的UML Distilled。
paofan对大家说: Is pattern about phlisophy? not only model(21:03)模式是原理么?不仅仅是建模吧?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: jeffray, please be polite just as a Chinese!!!(21:03)jeffray,作为一个中国人请注意一下礼貌!!!
johnvlissides对lipy说: if you need to dig deeper, get Rumbaughs Reference Manual(21:03)如果你想更深入一点,可以学习Rumbaughs Reference Manual(Rumbaugh的参考手册)
jeffray对johnvlissides说: Hmmmm,nice to meet you john ,i am one of your readers.(21:04)啊,很高兴见到您,John,我是您的一个读者。
johnvlissides对paofan说: there's a philosphical aspect to patterns, especially as Alexander's(21:04)对于模式是有一些原理性的观点,特别是Alexander的。
lipy对johnvlissides说: thank you very much!(21:04)非常感谢你!
johnvlissides对jeffray说: a pleasure to meet you too, jeffray(21:04)我也很高兴能见到你,jeffray.
fcx123对johnvlissides说: thanks! I mean analysis focus design module of realist. but desin are focus how to deal with it.(21:04)谢谢!我认为分析着重于设计模型的实现。但设计是着重于如何处理这些问题。
lovelybug28对大家说: as a new to design patterns,can you give me some useful advice?(21:05)作为设计模式的一个初学者,您能否给我一些有用的建议?
johnvlissides对founder_chen说: pleased to meet you, founder(21:05)很高兴见到你,founder。
paofan对大家说: yeah, from architechure(21:06)是的,从构架来看。
johnvlissides对lovelybug28说: a good new book is Design Patterns Explained, by Shalloway(21:06)你可以去阅读一下Shalloway写的一本非常出色的新书Design Patterns Explained。
johnvlissides对lovelybug28说: great for begin
ners(21:06)这本书对初学者会有很大的帮助。
johnvlissides对paofan说: Jim Coplien has written extensively on the "zen" of patterns(21:06)Jim Coplien已经完成了模式的"zen"。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: thank you ,Professor John lissides(21:07)谢谢您,John vlissides教授。
jeffray对johnvlissides说: Ok,john,I wanna ask you about the rules to use parterns..(21:07)好的,John,我想问您一些关于使用模式的规则方面的问题。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Design Patterns Explained? Oh, it's being translated into Chinese, said to be very good.(21:07)Design Patterns Explained?哦,它正在被翻译成中文,听说写得非常好。
johnvlissides对lovelybug28说: beyond that, my Pattern Hatching book demonstrates how (not) to use design patterns(21:07)除了这些,我的Pattern Hatching这本书也论证了如何使用设计模式。
paofan对大家说: some thing is coming to real. As Alexander's forecast.(21:07)一些事情正在变成现实。就像Alexander的预见。
johnvlissides对lovelybug28说: above all, though, you have to apply patterns to learn them(21:07)首先,你应该从应用的角度来学习他们。
johnvlissides对lovelybug28说: you can't just read about them(21:07)你不能仅仅是在阅读它们。
jeffray对johnvlissides说: I mean is there any philosophy choose a partern.(21:07)我认为有一些原理可以选择模式。
qingzuozhou对大家说: Hi, Mr. Johnvlissides, I have a question.(21:08)您好,John vlissides先生,我有一个问题。
johnvlissides对jeffray说: Ido
n't have a hard set of rules to give you, just advice: you have to apply patterns to learn them(21:08)我不能给你一套很严格的规则,只能建议:你必须在应用这些模式的过程中来学会他们。
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: yes sir(21:09)是的先生,你可以开始提问。
qingzuozhou对大家说: In your 23 design patterns, they are mainly used to design concret small components.(21:09)在您的设计模式中,主要是关于设计具体的小的组件。
qingzuozhou对大家说: How can I use these patterns to construct large system? Are there any design patterns on large system based these small patterns?(21:09)那么我如何使用这些模式来构建大型系统呢?是否那些构建大型系统的设计模式都是基于这些小模式的呢?
jeffray对johnvlissides说: er?(21:09)嗯?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Well, Mr Vlissides, howdo
you think of MVC? Is it a combination of several patterns, a model or a large pattern?(21:09)好的,Vlissides先生,您是如何看待MVC的呢?它是几个模式、模型或者大的模式的结合么?
lipy对johnvlissides说: Can you tell me how to use "collection manager"?(21:09)您可以告诉我如何使用"collection manager"?
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: not necessarily small components, but in general yes, theydo
n't address large-scale architectural concerns(21:09)不一定使用小的组件,但是在通常的意义上上,它们不能成为大型架构的核心流程。
lovelybug28对johnvlissides说: thank you,John! i'm very happy you can reply. i'm reading your bood design patterns.(21:10)谢谢您,John!对于您的回答我感到非常满意。我正在阅读您的设计模式。
missile对大家说: Nice to meet you !I like Design patterns!Thank you !(21:10)很高兴见到您!我喜欢设计模式!谢谢您!
huangcy对johnvlissides说: Professor John lissides,I think the design patterns is the component of application framework, so when you implment a framework you need to concrete some design patterns.(21:10)John Vlissides教授,我认为设计模式是应用框架的组件,所以当你要是先一个框架的时候,你需要将这些设计模式具体化。
johnvlissides对lipy说: send me e-mail about it: vlis@us.ibm.com(21:10)你可以发信到vlis@us.ibm.com。
jeffray对johnvlissides说: what's the relationship between parterns and programming languages?(21:10)模式和编程语言之间有什么关系么?
johnvlissides对missile说: glad I could help!(21:11)很高兴我能够帮助你!
jackaroo_yi对大家说: How to write summary design?(21:11)如何写总体设计?
paofan对大家说: partern-life program-language(21:11)模式-声明,程序-语言
johnvlissides对babysloth说: itdo
es indeed embody several of our patterns---plus synergies between them, plus some extra stuff(21:11)实际上,它需要将我们的几个模式具体化,也就是加上这些模式之间的协作,加上一些附加的材料。
paofan对大家说: Is it right? Mr. john.(21:12)对么?John先生。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: but when i abstract the framework of software ,i often is in too detail ,Can you give some advices about it?(21:12)但是当我抽象软件框架的时候,我经常会处理得过于详细,您能否给我一些关于这方面的建议呢?
jeffray对johnvlissides说: or-- if i use c++ ,then
I should choose xxx partern,if i use java ,then
i'd better choose some othe parterns,is that true?(21:12)如果我使用C++,那么我应该选择XXX模式,如果我使用Java,那么我最好应该选择其他的一些模式,这正确么?
missile对大家说: I used pattern in a huge project.if no patterns ,Ido
nt know how to realise.(21:12)我在一些巨大的项目中使用模式。否则,我就不知道该如何实现了。
qingzuozhou对大家说: there is no any pattern about building an application based on Database in 23 patterns, why?(21:12)在23种模式中没有任何一种是构建基于数据库应用的,这是为什么?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: yes, you can think of it as "instantiating" a pattern---but...(21:12)是的,你能够将模式作为一种示例来思考它们,但是……
babysloth对johnvlissides说: So is MVC also a pattern?(21:12)所以MVC也是一种模式?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: usually the pattern is just a starting point from which to evolve the design to your own needs(21:13)通常模式仅仅是一个将你的需求进化到设计的起点。
jackaroo_yi对johnvlissides说: Hello johnvlissides ,how to write(21:13)你好John Vlissides,如何来写呢?
johnvlissides对paofan说: not sure I understand what you mean(21:14)对不起,我不明白你的意思是什么。
paofan对大家说: sorry, umlchina(21:14)对不起,umlchina。
lipy对johnvlissides说: could you provide me some example of UML designing,Mr. John?(21:14)您可以提供一些UML设计的例子么,John先生?
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: because none of us had enough experience in database applications(21:14)那是因为我们没有数据库应用方面足够的经验。
jackaroo_yi对johnvlissides说: Hello johnvlissides ,how to write detail deisgn with UML .(21:15)你好JohnVlissides,如何用UML进行详细设计呢?
missile对fcx123说: Are you going to write a paterns book about java?(21:15)你是否正在写关于java的模式的书?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: what sort of detail?(21:15)什么种类的细节?
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: there are no patterns about building an application based on Database in 23 patterns, why?(21:15)在这23种模式中为什么没有关于构建基于数据库应用的模式?
paofan对johnvlissides说: pattern give code life. It is new view about program.(21:15)模式赋予代码以生命。它是关于编程的新的观点。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: the pattern is a starting point ? what is the real meaning? excuse me.(21:15)模式是一个起点么?这是什么意思?请原谅我要问这个问题。
johnvlissides对missile说: we've been working on a 2nd edition of Design Patterns for several years(21:15)我们已经为设计模式的第二个版本工作了好几年了。
johnvlissides对missile说: and most of the code examples are Java(21:16)并且大多数代码例子都是基于Java的。
paofan对johnvlissides说: Alexander thanks that all building have life too.(21:16)
johnvlissides对missile说: (no idea when 2ed will be out, but it won't be soon)(21:16)如果在第二版中没有出现新的观点,那么它就不可能这么快出版。
ansen_chen对大家说: When I use paterns,how can i extend it?(21:16)当我使用模式时,我该怎么扩展它呢?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: in Pattern Hatching I design a file system API using patterns(21:17)在Pattern Hatching中,我使用模式设计了一个文件系统API。
ansen_chen对大家说: please give me some advices(21:17)请给我一些建议。
lovelybug28对johnvlissides说: now some people regard pattern as bible.they think pattern can solve everything. howdo
you think of pattern and what is significance for pattern appears?(21:17)现在一些人把模式当作了宝典。它们认为模式可以解决所有的问题。您是如何看待模式的?模式出现有什么重大意义么?
huangcy对johnvlissides说: sometimes, I think the problem too detail ,and i cann't abstract the proper struct from model. and make the framework too detail and reduced its reusablity.(21:17)有些时候,我认为问题太过于详细,并且我不能从模型中抽象出正确的家沟。如果框架过于详细,就会减少它的可重用性。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: in more than one case, a pattern got applied in an unorthodox way(21:17)在不仅仅一个例子中,模式采用了非传统的方式。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: and evolved from there(21:17)并且从这些方式中得到了发展。
missile对johnvlissides说: I would like to waiting for it ,like waitting for my girl friend!(21:17)我愿意等待它,就像等待我的女朋友那样有耐心。
lipy对johnvlissides说: can you talk about the object-oriented database about UML ?(21:17)您能够谈一下采用UML的面向对象的数据库设计么?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: patterns are meant to be tailored to the problem at hand(21:18)模式是顺手对问题做得适当剪裁。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: that's why they're not code, but prose(21:18)这就是为什么他们不是代码,而是散文。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: they educate you, empower you to solve the problem with your mind turned on(21:18)这是告诉你,你应该通过你自己的思考来证明并解决这些问题。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: We can find some generic implements of SINGLETON, which we can reuse easily. But how about other patterns? It seems that we can find many.(21:18)我们曾经找到SINGLETON的特殊实现。它们可以很容易地进行重用。但是,其他模式呢?似乎我们找到了很多。
johnvlissides对missile说: wow, now that's a compliment!(21:18)不不,现在这只是一种恭维而已。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: sorry, we cannot find many.(21:19)对不起,应该是我们不能找到几个。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: I have not read your <pattern hatching >,but i read <design patterns..>, What is the main topic of <pattern hatching>?(21:19)我没有阅读过您的Pattern Hatching,但是我读过您的Design Patterns,Pattern Hatching这个标题是什么意思?
missile对johnvlissides说: Will you write some about Achetechur?(21:19)您是否写过一些关于架构的文章?
johnvlissides对ansen_chen说: are you asking how to apply a pattern, or how to amend its description?(21:19)是否你想问:如何应用一个模式,或者如何改进它的描述?
babysloth对huangcy说: pattern hatching: design patterns applied(21:20)Pattern Hatching的意思是设计模式的应用。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: the JDK is full of patterns, particularly Composite, Strategy, Template Method, Prototype, Observer, Decorator, Facade, Abstract Factory....(21:20)JDK就是由模式组成的,特别是Composite, Strategy, Template Method, Prototype, Observer, Decorator, Facade, Abstract Factory……
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: I want to know there are any patterns about database applications in 2ed of <<Design pattern>>.(21:21)我想知道在设计模式第二版中是否有关于数据库应用的模式。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: Pattern Hatching is part commentary, part tutorial on how to apply patterns, and(21:21)Pattern Hatching中有关于应用模式的部分注释、部分指南。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Yes, we can see the patterns, but we cannot reuse it easily just in form of a class, can we?(21:21)是的,我们看过模式。但是我们不能在类的层面上轻松的重用它,这是为什么?
huangcy对johnvlissides说: but the framework is the codes , I want to make my framework more abstract, and i think it will make it more good.(21:22)但框架是代码,我想使我的框架更抽象,并且我认为这样才能做一个更好的框架。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: part a behind-the-scenes look at how the four of us develop patterns(21:22)
johnvlissides对huangcy说: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/ref=cm_rate_rev/104-5101538-2496757#rated-review(21:22)
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: nope(21:22)不是。
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: The Pattern Almanac has a good set of references to such patterns(21:22)模式年鉴有一整套关于这些模式的参考。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: people have tried---me, even(21:23)人们都在尝试,我,也不例外。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: code generation generally isn't worth it(21:23)代码生成一般是没有什么价值的。
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: how can I use patterns to upgrade old applications? Give some advices please(21:23)那我该如何使用模式来升级一些老的应用呢?请给我一些建议。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: Alexandrescu's templates work better (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201704315/qid%3D982783857/104-5101538-2496757)(21:23)Alexandrescu的模板做得比较好,你可以参考(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201704315/qid%3D982783857/104-5101538-2496757)
huangcy对johnvlissides说: I think it is a good book for me, I am eager to have a such book.(21:24)我认为它是一本很好的书。我非常希望能够有这样一本书。
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: the old system didn't designed with OO design(21:24)如何采用面向对象的设计来升级那些没有设计好的老系统?
babysloth对johnvlissides说:do
you mean Modern C++ Design?(21:24)您是指现代的C++设计么?
johnvlissides对huangcy说: framework design is a whole area itself(21:24)框架设计本身就是一个很完整的领域。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: the best way todo
it is to build several examples of the applications your framework is to target *before* you write the framework(21:24) 在你写这个框架之前,最好的方法是先创建几个关于这个应用的例子。
johnvlissides对huangcy说: then
you take a step back and come up with an abstraction that caters to all the applications, and then
some(21:25)然后,你可以逐步的返回,直到抽象出来的例子是和所有的这类应用。
ansen_chen对大家说: When I use some patterns,how can i extend it and made it detail?Please give me some advices.(21:25)当我使用一些模式的时候,我应该如何扩展它,如何细化它?请给我一些建议。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: correct(21:25)正是如此。
ansen_chen对大家说: When I use some patterns,how can i extend it and made it detail?Please give me some advices.(21:25) 当我使用一些模式的时候,我应该如何扩展它,如何细化它?请给我一些建议。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Modern C++ Design is not easy to understand.(21:25)现代C++设计并不是很容易理解的。
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: patterns are useful as targets for refactorings(21:25)模式是目标的一种影像。
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: finer-grain refactorings are even more fundamentally useful(21:26)好的比较精细的影像就会更有用。
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: see Fowler's Refactoring book(21:26)你可以阅读Fowler的关于Refactoring的书。(Refactoring好像应该为Refractoring)
lipy对johnvlissides说: we are changing c module to C++ module ,can you give me some advice?(21:26)我们正逐渐从C模型转到C++模型,您可以给我一些建议么?
ansen_chen对johnvlissides说: When I use some patterns,how can i extend it and made it detail?Please give me some advices.(21:26) 当我使用一些模式的时候,我应该如何扩展它,如何细化它?请给我一些建议。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: Abstact the framework from existed system? oh, I see some. thank you very much.(21:26)从现有的系统中抽象出框架?哦,我好像明白了一些。非常感谢您!
johnvlissides对babysloth说: agreed---the template implementations are very hard to understand(21:26)同意!理解模板的实现好像比较难。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: but the templates themselves are pretty easy to use(21:26)但是模板自己却比较容易使用。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Whydo
you choose java in DP 2/e? Have you considered combine Generic Programming and Patterns?(21:27)你为什么要在设计模式第二版中选择Java呢?您是否考虑过将一般编程和模式结合起来?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: I like template very much.(21:27)我非常喜欢模板。
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: in the markets, are there any tools integrating the patterns into ?(21:27)在市场上,是否有一些工具将模式整合到里面了?
johnvlissides对ansen_chen说: my Pattern Hatching book and Shalloway's Design Patterns Explained have many good examples of applying patterns(21:27)我的Pattern Hatching和Shalloway的Design Patterns Explained这两本书中有很多采用模式的好的例子。
paofan对johnvlissides说: how about pattern's future?(21:28)您认为模式的未来如何?
johnvlissides对lipy说: why are you changing it?(21:28) 为什么您要修改它?
thomas_guo对johnvlissides说: What about your research recently?(21:28)您最近在研究什么?
johnvlissides对babysloth说: we use mostly Java because it illustrates what we want to show best, and it's also popular(21:28)我们大多数都在使用Java因为我们可以通过最好的方式来表达它,因此它也变得流行。
lovelybug28对johnvlissides说: John,after pattern,do you think what would replace it?(21:29)John,在模式之后,您认为什么可能替代它呢?
lipy对johnvlissides说: can you tell me some other good tool using UML except rose?(21:29)除了rose您可以告诉我一些其它的使用UML的工具么?
fcx123对johnvlissides说: Wedo
n't know how to create pattern. Can you tell about the exprience that you create those design pattern?(21:29)我们不知道该如何创建模式。您能否告诉我您在创建那些设计模式的经验么?
johnvlissides对babysloth说: I'm a big fan of generic programming, by the way(21:29)顺便说一下,我是一个一般编程的强烈爱好者。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: I've worked a bit with Krzysztof Czarnecki(21:29)我曾经使用Krzysztof Czarnecki工作过。
johnvlissides对qingzuozhou说: sorry;
Ido
n't understand your question(21:30)对不起,我没有看懂您的问题。
johnvlissides对paofan说: they certainly have on
(21:30)它们当然应该穿起来。&#61514;
xf_yes对大家说: John, whendo
ing OO design, sometimes i feel it's difficult to control granularity of objects,do
you have any suggestion in this?(21:30)John,当使用OO进行设计时,有时候我觉得控制对象的尺寸是很困难的一件事情,关于这方面您有没有什么好的建议?
lipy对johnvlissides说: because our product is changing to the model of Client -Server(21:30)因为我们的产品正在被修改成C/S模式。
xf_yes对大家说: i.e. When can we say: ok, let's make this abstraction an object?(21:30)例如,我们是否可以说:好的,让我们使用这个抽象的类?
johnvlissides对paofan说: seriously, the set of patterns will expand and will be refined(21:31)严格来说,这一套模式将会被扩展并且被重新定义。
johnvlissides对paofan说: patterns will be categorized better(21:31)如果对模式进行分类也许会更好。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Oh, I see. I'm trying to learn GP now, so interesting!(21:31)哦,我明白了。我现在就开始学习GP,太有趣了。
johnvlissides对paofan说: and more people will use them(21:31)并且越来越多的人都是使用它们。
johnvlissides对xf_yes说: a very good point(21:31)这是一个好的观点。
xf_yes对大家说: thanks
John(21:32)感谢你,John。
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: Any design tools implements your patterns as templates?(21:32)是否有设计工具将您的模式作为模板了?
johnvlissides对xf_yes说: there's a trade-off between granularity/flexibility/cost(21:32)在granularity/flexibility/cost三者之间有一个平衡。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: I think GP use the template to abstract the modules, Is it right?(21:32)我认为GP使用模板来抽象模式,对么?
socceracer对johnvlissides说: Is there a pattern language at present? I mean, a source language to describe the pattern?(21:32)现在是否有模式语言?我的意思是,应该有一种源语言来描述模式。
johnvlissides对xf_yes说: the finer grain, the more flexibility, but generally the higher the complexity and costs, especially run-time and maintenance costs(21:32)适当的粒度,更强的扩展性,但是一般会造成更高的复杂程度和花费,特别是运行时和维持费用。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Well,do
you think GP is a part of OO(as in OOSC), or a independent paradigm?(21:32)好的,您是否认为GP是OO的一部分或者OO的一个独立的范例?
fcx123对johnvlissides说: You are one of the famous master of "design pattern", can you introduce some of your friends in the fields? Hope you to give us their homepage or e-mail box.(21:33)您是著名的设计模式的作者之一,您能介绍一下这个领域中您的一些朋友么?希望您能告诉我们它们的网址或者email邮箱?
socceracer对johnvlissides说: Can we treat the pattern in a formal way?(21:33)我们是否可以在传统的方式下使用模式?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: And will patterns be combined with GP?(21:33)是否模式会与GP合并?
xf_yes对johnvlissides说: make sense(21:33)有意义!
johnvlissides对xf_yes说: you should make it an object if it becomes clear that it can change, and those changes should ripple through the system(21:33)你可以将它做成一个对象如果它比较清晰,它可以改变并且这些改变将在系统中留下痕迹。
johnvlissides对xf_yes说: it should also be a good abstraction, a good metaphor(21:34)它应该也是一个好的抽象,一个好的比喻。
beartoy对johnvlissides说: I developed a server, but it always throw out of memory exception, it seems stack is not enough, because I used a lot of recursions. Is there any method to solve it? I u(21:34)我开发过一个服务器,但是它总是抛出内存泄漏异常,它似乎是因为堆栈不够,因为我使用了大量的递归。是否有什么方法可以解决这个问题?
paofan对johnvlissides说: yeah, more program will infect future. infect every one.(21:34)是的,越来越多的程序将会影响未来,影响每一个人。
huangcy对johnvlissides说: Prof. Can you tell me what is the main different between analysis pattern and design pattern?(21:35)教授,您能告诉我分析模式和设计模式之间最主要的不同是什么么?
xf_yes对johnvlissides说: by 'ripple' you mean the object's state change will have influence on other part of the system?(21:35)痕迹?您的意思是说对象的状态改变将会影响到系统的其它部分么?
johnvlissides对fcx123说: check out IBM's Design Patterns page http://www.research.ibm.com/designpatterns/(21:35)您可以到IBM的设计模式主页上找到这些信息http://www.research.ibm.com/designpatterns/
johnvlissides对xf_yes说: yes: one change leads to another, which leads to another, ...(21:36)是的,每一个的改变都会影响到另一个,同时第二个的改变有会影响到第三个,这样持续不断。
fcx123对johnvlissides说: Thanks!(21:36)非常感谢!
lipy对johnvlissides说: Mr. John are you living in China now?(21:36)John先生,您现在是否在中国?
babysloth对johnvlissides说: Thanks very much for giving me the permission to translate your column Pattern Hatching into Chinese. Should I send you a electronic version of the second article to you?(21:36)非常感谢您允许我将您的Pattern Hatching的部分内容翻译成中文。我是否应该将我的翻译文稿的电子版发给你呢?
ansen_chen对babysloth说: hi,I am begin
ner.GP is generic patter,is right?(21:36)喂,我是一个初学者。GP是一般的模式的缩写,对么?
qingzuozhou对johnvlissides说: with my experiences, useing pattern often make system more complicate and more codes, how avoid that?(21:36)按照我的经验,使用模式经常让系统变得更复杂,编码量更大,该如何避免这些问题呢?
johnvlissides对beartoy说: replace (some) recursion with iteration. also it might help to increase the VM's heap size(21:37)通过迭代来代替一部分递归。当然你也可以扩大虚拟机的堆栈尺寸。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: then
you can make it available online?(21:37)这样您就可以方便的在线获取到它了。
johnvlissides对babysloth说: I'm sure patterns of GP will emerge (that's what I was talking to Krzysztof about)(21:37)我确信GP的模式将会更明显(这也是我曾经和Krzysztof谈到过的)
johnvlissides对socceracer说: lots of people have tried to formalize patterns, most notable Amnon Eden (try a Google search)(21:38)很多人都拘泥于形式化的模式,把它当作太阳神的伊甸园(尝试一下Google的搜索)。
paofan对johnvlissides说: how about culture. IBM join in Linux and Java group, Is it hint the big blue will be more open.(21:38)IBM加入到Linux和Java组,这是否暗示蓝色巨人也会公开源代码。
babysloth对johnvlissides说: So is "traits" a pattern of GP?(21:38)这就是GP模式的特点。
johnvlissides对lipy说: nope, I'm in NY (but I'd certainly like to visit China)(21:39)不,我在纽约,但是我一直很希望能访问中国。